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Post by bluerock on Aug 27, 2017 12:20:55 GMT
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huntinggettingcaptured
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Post by huntinggettingcaptured on Aug 27, 2017 12:26:56 GMT
It's really weird that when people talk about male soul singers, David, Levi and Eddie routinely are overlooked. I just wonder if it's because they were Motown artists, and for the bulk of the general public, Motown is its own genre- not totally soul, not totally pop, not totally rock- just Motown. So the people who come up with these lists just don't consider them as "Soul" singers. But then that doesn't explain why Smokey and Marvin made it... I've always felt David and Levi were always criminally under appreciated.
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Post by mpn1jco on Aug 27, 2017 14:18:52 GMT
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Post by mpn1jco on Aug 27, 2017 14:20:09 GMT
Keith Sweat was one of the few solo male black singers to achieve consisten mulit-platinum album successes. From his debut album in 1987, Make It Last Forever, until 1990 every album by Keith Sweat was platinum, often selling 4 million or 3 million. His 1990 album went gold. Ross' album The Boss, considered by her fans as her finest effort, has never sold over 800,000 copies to this date.
One of the complaints Luther Vandross had was his lack of multi-platinum success, which he achieved later in his career. Although Luther Vandross has a greater legacy, Keith Sweat considerably outsold Luther during Luther's peak years.
What is interesting is apart from the Supremes, Ross never had the album sales of Keith Sweat. Ross never had a multi-platinum album in the US. Her biggest selling album Diana, was platinum, not mult-platinum. Lady Sings The Blues was platinum but sold 500,000. It was a double record so it was calculated as a million. Most of Ross' albums that did not have hit singles sold in the 250,000 range and after 1985 she never sold over 100,000 albums per release. Many of her albums had elaborate packaging and extensive press that further prevented Motown from making a profit. For example, the unique packaging on the 1974 live album with the photo collage and elaborate gatefold sleeve sold in the 200,000 range. Motown obviously lost money on this release.
Jobeterob quoted a review, by a Ross fan, stating the Diana album sold 9 million records. That album did not sell 9 million records. Be careful of Jobeterob, because he consistently posts fake numbers about Ross.
Berry Gordy did not want the public, particularly the record industry, to know what Ross' record sales were. He was protecting a myth of success, that Ross eventually believed. Berry told her she was not selling records, and by that time Ross believed her publicity. The fake hype around her record sales landed her the RCA contract, but she never produced sales significant for the label to make a profit. I am not saying that Keith Sweat is a better artist than anyone, but that he connected with the record buying public in a way that other artists were unable to.
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Post by mpn1jco on Aug 27, 2017 14:32:14 GMT
Your complaints about Keith Sweat are precisely what the general public says about Ross - she can't sing! By the way, when is Ross going to check the Soulful Detroit forum? How is she enjoying her relationship with Obama?
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Post by hector on Aug 27, 2017 21:59:29 GMT
I always thought "The Boss" was something like a 2-3 million seller the way her fans gush and praise it. To learn that it didn't even sell a million is disappointing but expected......
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Post by mpn1jco on Aug 28, 2017 22:18:57 GMT
I always thought "The Boss" was something like a 2-3 million seller the way her fans gush and praise it. To learn that it didn't even sell a million is disappointing but expected...... The Boss has yet to cap 800,000 in sales in the US. The album was not a worldwide hit either. The problem I find when speaking to people about her is the voice. The chief complaint is complaints that she cannot sing. However, most people like the Supremes.
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Post by hector on Aug 29, 2017 0:05:27 GMT
I always thought "The Boss" was something like a 2-3 million seller the way her fans gush and praise it. To learn that it didn't even sell a million is disappointing but expected...... The Boss has yet to cap 800,000 in sales in the US. The album was not a worldwide hit either. The problem I find when speaking to people about her is the voice. The chief complaint is complaints that she cannot sing. However, most people like the Supremes. She definitely cannot sing. Check this out. "My World Is Empty Without You". It is much better done by Mary Wilson now. Even the musicians suck on Diane's version with that out of place piano. It all just sounds like a bunch of noise:
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Post by bluerock on Aug 29, 2017 8:19:15 GMT
It's really weird that when people talk about male soul singers, David, Levi and Eddie routinely are overlooked. I just wonder if it's because they were Motown artists, and for the bulk of the general public, Motown is its own genre- not totally soul, not totally pop, not totally rock- just Motown. So the people who come up with these lists just don't consider them as "Soul" singers. But then that doesn't explain why Smokey and Marvin made it... I've always felt David and Levi were always criminally under appreciated. Chris Brown made the list, he can hold a tune but is he really better than Gerald Levert, Dennis Edwards, David Ruffin, Johnny Mathis etc?, and i agree with you about Levi Stubbs. That guy could make anything sound good. I cannot take this list even half seriously.
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Post by ranran on Aug 29, 2017 8:20:29 GMT
I imagine the list is the result of a survey which was probably given to a diverse age group.
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Post by ranran on Aug 29, 2017 8:21:32 GMT
It's really weird that when people talk about male soul singers, David, Levi and Eddie routinely are overlooked. I just wonder if it's because they were Motown artists, and for the bulk of the general public, Motown is its own genre- not totally soul, not totally pop, not totally rock- just Motown. So the people who come up with these lists just don't consider them as "Soul" singers. But then that doesn't explain why Smokey and Marvin made it... I've always felt David and Levi were always criminally under appreciated. Chris Brown made the list, he can hold a tune but is he really better than Gerald Levert, Dennis Edwards, David Ruffin, Johnny Mathis etc?, and i agree with you about Levi Stubbs. That guy could make anything sound good. I cannot take this list even half seriously. Again, "better" is subjective. You'd really have to answer your own question. No right or wrong here. Chris Brown is one of the more vocally talented of the artists today. Unfortunately he believes his audience is better served by giving them a voice bogged down in electronics instead of straight singing. On it's own (Chris' voice) the boy is bad. But he comes from a different tradition than those great voices you mention. Gerald, Dennis, David, they were steeped in soul. Johnny Mathis crooned. Johnny and the rest of those guys were giving you the best that their voice had to offer, selling the lyric with their interpretation. I think they understood that it was the voice that captures the public's attention slightly before anything else does (aside from an ear catching intro). Chris Brown and some of the other talented vocalists today seem to concern themselves with having the hottest beats or the dirtiest lyrics. Their off the stage antics are designed to keep people talking. Meanwhile their God giving vocal abilities are an after thought. A shame really.
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Post by bluerock on Aug 29, 2017 8:22:47 GMT
You make some valid points here. I agree that Chris Brown has a decent voice and if he was given some vintage songs to perform with old fashioned production values i suspect he would sound rather good, but of course that is not his target audience. I saw him live a few years back as support to Rhianna, and he just blew her away on stage.
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Post by bluerock on Aug 29, 2017 8:23:11 GMT
In my opinion this guy tied with David Ruffin as the finest ever Temptations vocalist. He was awesome on record and stage. He really did not get the props he deserved, and his premature death greatly saddened me.
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Post by chainreaction on Aug 29, 2017 8:40:52 GMT
You make some valid points here. I agree that Chris Brown has a decent voice and if he was given some vintage songs to perform with old fashioned production values i suspect he would sound rather good, but of course that is not his target audience. I saw him live a few years back as support to Rhianna, and he just blew her away on stage. Who did Diana Ross tell you who is her favorite singer?
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Post by mpn1jco on Aug 29, 2017 12:55:57 GMT
The Boss has yet to cap 800,000 in sales in the US. The album was not a worldwide hit either. The problem I find when speaking to people about her is the voice. The chief complaint is complaints that she cannot sing. However, most people like the Supremes. She definitely cannot sing. Check this out. "My World Is Empty Without You". It is much better done by Mary Wilson now. Even the musicians suck on Diane's version with that out of place piano. It all just sounds like a bunch of noise:
I got into the first few lines of the songs and I had to shut it of. I have to regroup before I can go further. Watching her shimmying with a gut that rival's an expectant mother, and an outfit that looks like one of her early school grandchildren assembled it for a mother's day gift was unsettling. As for as her energy level, I would say she is resting on stage before she gets tired. When the screeching, yelling, out of tune ( yes, out of tune folks ) voice came on, I shut off the video. Do they have seats at that venue, it looks like people are standing. I never heard Dionne Warwick sound this bad - EVER!
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